April 23, 2026

The Invisible Loss

The Invisible Loss
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Join Lewis in a conversation with Laverne McKinnon. Ms. McKinnon is a Grief Coach, Career Strategist, and Speaker who helps executives, entrepreneurs, and creatives navigate transitions, whether embracing a pivot, stepping into leadership, or recovering from career disruption. As a senior entertainment executive, she developed Emmy and Golden Globe-nominated series at CBS and EPIX, and executive-produced Netflix’s GIRLBOSS. Email: lavernemckinnoncoaching@gmail.com

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

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those of W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates.

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We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,

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Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any questions or comment should

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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

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W four WN Radio's.

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Success, Successful, Hard Set, Rise Successful Women.

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Did you know women represent just three percent of Fortune

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five hundred CEOs and less than fifteen percent of corporate

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executives at top companies worldwide? Have you wondered what the

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secrets are to getting into the top ranks, whether in

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the private or public sector. Do you want to figure

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out how to stop being held back in your career?

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Are pasted over for promotion? Then you're in the right place. Hi,

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I'm doctor Madlananne lewis President and CEO of the Executive

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Women's Success Institute. I have decades of experience in the military,

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the federal government, and corporate America, and my mission is

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to help women succeed and tap into their full potential.

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I want to reach a million plus women around the

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world to become the leaders they are meant to be.

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So if you want to move into a management or

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executive level position, or maybe you are a female veteran

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transitioning out of the military into business entrepreneurship, then reach

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out to the Executive Women's Success Institute at.

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Three zero one six' nine three three two eight four.

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Let us get you on the fast track to. Success, well,

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hello and welcome to The success For Women's, show where

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you can view us On talk FOR tv and listen

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to us on The women To Women. NETWORK i am

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Doctor madeline And lewis your, host and my mission is

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to help women accelerate.

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The path to.

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Success and our topic today is the invisible loss and

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you're going to be surprised at what that. Means and

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my guess is none other Than Miss laverne. McKinnon let

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me just.

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Give you a little bit of background On.

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Laverne verne McKinnon is a grief, coach career, strategist and

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speaker who helps, executives, entrepreneurs and creatives navigate, transitions whether

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embracing a, pivot stepping into leadership or recovering from career.

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Disruption as a senior entertainment, executive she Developed emmy And

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Golden globe nominated series AT cbs And epics and executive

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Produced Netflix's Girl. Boss she teaches At Northwestern university and

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she mentors through THE Cape Leadership. FELLOWSHIP i want to

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bring on and introduce to our platform, Today Ms laverne.

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McKinnon, hi Doctor, mettle And i'm so excited and happy

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to be here and to be chatting with. You it's

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a real.

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Honor, well it's an honor to have you on the,

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platform you. Know WHEN i was reading all your background

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and some of the things that you've, DONE i, mean

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it's just. Phenomenal so we're just glad to have you

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here to share some of your success. Nuggets but BEFORE

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i get, STARTED i always read the standard bio on my,

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Guests but THEN i like to ask my guests to

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JUST i just want you to tell us what you

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want us to know About laverne.

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McKinnon i love this question because hearing you read that,

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BIO i was, Like, oh that actually sounds, okay that's

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not so. Bad but what's hidden behind that bio is

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the hard truth that after ten years AT cbs and

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being part of the team that took the network from

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last place to, FIRST i was fired from that job

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AND i completely, blindsided absolutely dev, Stated and the work

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THAT i do now is so informed from that moment

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in time WHERE i did have the rug pulled out

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from underneath. Me and some other things THAT i feel

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Like i'd love for people to know is That i'm a,

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Wife i'm a. MOTHER i have two, daughters both. Adopted

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my eldest is adopted From china and my youngest is

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adopted through THE la foster care. System and Being i'm

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not saying anything original, here being a mom is the,

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hardest most fulfilling Job i've ever.

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Had.

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Wow and LIKE i, SAID i said in the, beginning

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people are going to be surprised at the topic WHERE

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i said the invisible, loss because we're actually referring to

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even calling you a group. Coach we're referring to the

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career and the different things that happens to people in

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their careers and how they may react to. It so tell,

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us and then you talk about career, Grief what is

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it and how is it different from burnout or imposter sym.

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Draw. Yeah so career grief in the simplest form is

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when something at work changes that you, really really really

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did not want to. Change and SO i spoke about my, firing, layoffs.

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Downsizing but career grief also encompasses the investment that you

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have made of your time and energy and resources to

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get a project across the finish, line and maybe it

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loses funding or it launches and it's not well. Received

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it's marketing, mishaps professional. Embarrassments essentially any type of grief

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that is not, recognized, validated or. Supported and so some

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people listening might be or watching might be, thinking wait a,

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second how is something that happened at work a grief?

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Event and so it's a form of grief that bereavement

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experts call disenfranchised. Grief and so it it's. Valid it's

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not something THAT i just made up BECAUSE i felt

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really really bad about what happened to. Me but it took,

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me Doctor, madeline ten years to figure out that the

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FEELINGS i was having about a professional heartbreak that it was.

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Grief, Wow and that's you, Know and to be, honest

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a lot of people go through it and some probably

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don't even recognize what it.

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IS i, mean just to the point where if you

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wake up in the morning and you think.

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To, yourself, oh, MAN i really don't feel like going

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to this, place you, know because of the things that

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you have to go through and the things that you

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have to put up.

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With that's that sends a lot of people into.

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Depression and sometimes they may not even realize that it's

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the job or the, career the profession or whatever it

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is that's doing.

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That.

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Yeah, absolutely because grief is a direct result of how

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deeply we were attached to a, person a, place or a.

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Thing so you AND i could have been working at

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the same. Company we both have been laid. Off you are, like, Awesome,

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Great i'm going to go on to my next. Adventure

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And i'm lying on the floor sobbing and crying because

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you were not attached to the role in the same

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way THAT i. Was and you mentioned burnout an imposter syndrome.

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Earlier and so what happens is when we don't give

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ourselves permission to mourn and we don't acknowledge the, grief

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it doesn't go. Away, unfortunately it starts to leak, out

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and so it leaks out in the form of, burnout cognition.

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Issues it's like memory, loss not being able to put

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two thoughts, together, sleep appetite is, disrupted and so it

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has a lot of symptoms that may be attributed to other.

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Things and SO i think it's important to, say, hey

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wait a, second was there something that happened that meant

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more to me THAN i thought it?

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Did?

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Yeah, Yeah because believe it or, not there are a

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lot of people that identify with their jobs or the

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position that they're, in and when if that's disrupted or

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they're let go fired for some, reason you, know then

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to them it's.

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Like what, now what DO i?

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DO i don't know what to do with, myself you. Know,

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so and they tend to have that type of reaction.

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Too they just don't don't know what to do next

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because they put everything into that one basket sort of.

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Speak AND i was there completely AFTER i was, FIRED

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i did not know what to. Do and even THOUGH

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i went on to other high profile jobs and on

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the outside the bio sounds really, good on the, INSIDE

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i was filled with imposter, syndrome and to be completely,

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TRANSPARENT i was also filled with a lot of self

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loathing BECAUSE i, thought how COULD i have done. That

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how COULD i have messed up so? Horribly and so

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that's where we get into some really interesting territory because

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specifically with career, grief we have the visible loss and

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then we have the hidden. Losses so on the, OUTSIDE

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i lost my, JOB i lost my, TITLE i lost my,

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SALARY i lost a place to. GO i lost my parking.

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SPACE i tell, you, Unturned, ELLEN i love that parking.

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Space it had my name on. It and WHEN i

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got that, promotion it meant so much to. ME i

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felt LIKE i had. Arrived and so losing, it, man

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it was like a knife in my. Heart but the

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most important thing is recognizing what are the losses that

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are underneath the job, title the, salary the. Benefits and

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so my, identity like you were talking, about my identity

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was completely trapped uh and woven into that. Job and

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SO i lost my, IDENTITY i lost my, PURPOSE i

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lost my sense of. BELONGING i lost my, work, family my.

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Community and so even THOUGH i went on to other,

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JOBS i need to address. Losses and so that's WHY

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i continue to feel so much pain and.

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Suffering, wow that's, Interesting and LIKE i, said a lot

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of people don't even recognize that that could possibly be,

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it or they have put themselves in that position so

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deeply that if, that if anything should, happen that they

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would spiral like. That it's just unbelievable sometimes to think about.

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That so tell us what are some.

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Less obvious losses people experience in their careers that they

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don't always recognize as.

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Grief, yeah so there are three types of labels of,

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grief and So i've been referencing What i'm going to

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call like a single grief. EVENT i got, fired a

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project was, Defunded so there's something very very. Clear there

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are also WHAT i call death by a thousand cuts accumulative.

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Effect so AND i see this a lot with job

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seekers who send out one hundred and fifty resumes and

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they don't hear anything any single one of those. Events it's, like,

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eh it's a paper. Cut but when you have one

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hundred and fifty of, them then you're, like what just

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happened to my? Finger and so that like it becomes.

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Cumulative and so again that's where people sometimes get confused

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and are reluctant to label their experience as grief because

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there isn't a single defined. Event and then there's a

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third category that is more ambiguous. Grief for, me it

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took about four months between the difficult conversation that my

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boss was not happy with me BEFORE i was officially,

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fired SO i didn't know what was. Happening so it

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was really ambiguous because there was no clear. ENDING i

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was just like left in a free for. All and

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So i'm going to go back to this idea of

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attachment that anything that you were attached to that was,

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severed that meant a great deal to. You it's irrelevant

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whether anyone else thinks that that's worthy of. Grief it's

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worthy of grief because you were attached to. It and

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So i'm just thinking of a client who didn't get

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a promotion that she'd been working towards for about nine,

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months and people are, like you are on a good,

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track everyone loves. You it went to the person who

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had more, experience they'd been around. Longer your turn is,

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Next do not. Worry because she was so, devastated and

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so people just couldn't wrap their heads around. It but for,

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her she had spent nine months proving, herself going above and,

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beyond and so every time one of those things wasn't,

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recognized that was like another little paper.

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Cut, absolutely AND i have been down that road. ALSO

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i mean applying for a position THAT i knew THAT

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i was qualified. FOR i had someone on the board

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THAT i knew would be an advocate for me and

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all of, that and they wound up picking someone that

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wasn't even a part of the. Organization and and the

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thing about the whole, SITUATION i, thought you, KNOW i

223
00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:50.200
KNEW i was good at WHAT i, did AND i

224
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:54.080
also knew this person did not have the qualifications.

225
00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:56.600
THAT i, had but they picked them, anyway and.

226
00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:01.039
About three months is so IN i think they he.

227
00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:04.120
Quit he could not he couldn't handle the.

228
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.120
Position and they came to me and asked me WHAT

229
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.399
i stepped into that, position WHICH i could have BEEN

230
00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:14.799
i thought back, then And i'm GLAD i. Didn't but

231
00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:16.720
back THEN i could have Been patty and, said, no

232
00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:18.480
you didn't give it to me when, they you, know

233
00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:20.200
applied for. IT i don't want it, Now BUT i.

234
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.240
DIDN'T i took the, position and it did spiral my,

235
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:28.639
career you. Know so WHEN i look back on, IT i, think,

236
00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.639
well it's a, good you know thing THAT i didn't

237
00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:33.879
turn it down when they offered it to, me because

238
00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.279
it led to other, Things but it was just THAT

239
00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.200
i kept, thinking why would they put him in a

240
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:45.120
position that they knew that they had someone more qualified For,

241
00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.159
so like you, SAY i was. Devastated it was like

242
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:48.919
a slap in my.

243
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.519
Face you. Know SO, i LIKE i, Said i've been

244
00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.840
down that. ROAD i CAN i can relate to people

245
00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:56.480
that feel that.

246
00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.840
Way, well, yes, Yes AND i really appreciate what you're

247
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:04.440
saying because it feels like within that you were able

248
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.240
to say. Ouch and it's one of the things THAT

249
00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.039
i encourage people to do is in professional, settings we

250
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:17.120
don't have permission to say. Out but at home it's

251
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:20.399
so important with our trusted, friends the people who are

252
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.679
close to us to say ouch and not bury, it

253
00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:26.799
because if we don't say, ouch then the grease starts

254
00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.919
to leak out in other ways the way, absolutely MAY

255
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.039
i ask you a follow up question around that, experience

256
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.759
when you decide in that, moment if you can recall

257
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:40.440
when you decided, to when they came back around and, said,

258
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.000
hey will you take this? Position what were you saying yes? To,

259
00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:47.080
like how were you able to overcome the? Ouch?

260
00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.200
WELL i think because LIKE i, SAID i knew it

261
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:56.440
was myself and it was three because it was four

262
00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.320
candidate it was myself and the other candidates all.

263
00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:05.920
MEN i was the only female, applying AND i looked.

264
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.440
At it as, Though, okay do you just male in

265
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:11.480
this position because you feel like they can handle it,

266
00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:14.839
better or do you want someone with experience in this?

267
00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:15.640
Position you?

268
00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.119
Know and so when they came to me and they

269
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.799
asked me to step in the, POSITION i, thought you,

270
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.519
know for a little glimmer, THERE i was, like, YEAH.

271
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:28.039
I should just tell them.

272
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:33.720
This, yeah probably that would have felt so. SATISFYING i

273
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:34.200
would have been.

274
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:39.759
Satisfied BUT i guess even THOUGH i hadn't heard the

275
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:45.119
saying Then i'll say What Michelle obama said when they.

276
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.680
Alo we go. By so that's WHY i, decided you.

277
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.680
Know but it was one of those things WHERE i

278
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:54.200
at the, POSITION i KNEW i could do. It and

279
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:57.119
so ALTHOUGH i was a little angry at them for

280
00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:59.200
doing it the way they did, it the fact that

281
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:01.359
they came back to me and they asked me to

282
00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.319
step into the, position AND i also knew it was

283
00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.880
an important position and something that was needed in the.

284
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.000
Organization and SO i went on AND i stepped into the.

285
00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:15.960
POSITION i just and as you, SAID i had a

286
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.720
buffer WHEN i was WHEN i was turned down for the,

287
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:23.680
POSITION i had like outlets, people you, know so THAT

288
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.920
i could talk to an event SO i didn't have

289
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:26.720
to hold it all.

290
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.359
In AND i think IF i had, to IF i

291
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:31.240
had held.

292
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.799
It all in and not be able to vent and

293
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:36.799
just talk to someone and tell them HOW i felt about,

294
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.799
it be able to yell about, it like how could

295
00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:42.119
they do this to? ME i think, then and it's

296
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.079
AND i even have a part of it in MY

297
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.960
TEDx talk THAT i. DID i even talked about it

298
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.319
in that BECAUSE i think it was an important story

299
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.680
that a lot of women especially is.

300
00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.160
Experienced so and and and.

301
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.759
SO i just LIKE i, said said there was that

302
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.559
one glimmer that, said BUT i felt that it was

303
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.759
more important for me to do it to show, that,

304
00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:09.920
yes you could have.

305
00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:10.799
A female in this.

306
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.880
Position it's not just a male position because you feel

307
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.119
they can do it, better you, know, yeah, Yes.

308
00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:23.200
And you just touched on another form of cumulative or

309
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:29.839
ambiguous grief which is being passed over because of, race,

310
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:35.759
gender and, so because it's so much a part of

311
00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:38.559
what happens in at Least i'm going to say like

312
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.240
in THE, us in terms of the. Workforce we just

313
00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:43.960
look at Or i'm going to, SAY i just look at.

314
00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:46.960
It it's, like, oh that's just part of what, happens

315
00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.640
AND i don't recognize it as something that's really stepping

316
00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:54.960
on my values and what's important to. Me and so over, time,

317
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.480
though there becomes a tonage of. That and yet it's, like,

318
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.640
well that's just the way it, is the way it,

319
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.480
is you, know but it is that's. GRIEF i mean

320
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:04.160
there's grief.

321
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:09.200
There, yeah absolutely absolutely. So but you, know LIKE i,

322
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.920
said it all worked out and and NOW i can

323
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:16.839
use it as a story to help other women to

324
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.119
move forward and not get stuck in a tunnel, saying,

325
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.759
well you, know Maybe i'm not good enough start thinking

326
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.400
having these would if, thoughts well they didn't want, me

327
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:29.119
maybe you, know Maybe i'm not as good AS i

328
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:30.599
THINK i am or something like.

329
00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:32.359
That SO i think.

330
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:35.759
That's a part of that ends up being a part

331
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:39.400
of The greef, thing you, know period two where you

332
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:41.880
start doubting yourself you, know.

333
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:47.160
Oh my, gosh, yes. YEAH I i had an image

334
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.880
in my head of WHO i was AT, Cbs like

335
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.440
part of my identity was THAT i was competent and,

336
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.000
capable which is WHY i was promoted every eighteen to

337
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:57.680
twenty four. Months and so every TIME i got one

338
00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.680
of those, promotions that reinforced this identity THAT i had

339
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.680
UNTIL i was fired and then oh, wow to have

340
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:08.440
to be able to rebuild that BECAUSE i was filled

341
00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.960
with so much imposter. Syndrome AND i told myself all these.

342
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:15.920
Stories and there's a framework THAT i use WHEN i

343
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:21.160
support people who are working through a through career. Grief

344
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:24.880
it's Called Rise, Rise and you AND i just spoke

345
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.559
about the first LETTER, r which is recognize the loss

346
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.480
and say. Ouch the second step is stands FOR, i

347
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:35.039
is investigate the. Meaning and so WHEN i started to

348
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:40.119
learn more about, GRIEF i was able to question AM i?

349
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:45.599
Incapable AM i? Incompetent and so the path forward there's

350
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:50.960
data over. Drama, okay what is the data that Supports i'm,

351
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:54.839
Incompetent i'm? Incapable and so WHEN i just looked at

352
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.319
it very, factually it was, like, Well i've gone on

353
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:02.039
to multiple, jobs not one hundred. Percent but THEN i

354
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.000
also had to say what is actually mine to? Own

355
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:09.319
because being fired just doesn't come out of the. Blue

356
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.799
and so WHAT i was able to recognize and own

357
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:15.960
AS i. Investigated this meaning that AM i incompetent or?

358
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:19.640
Incapable is THAT i essentially grew up AT. CBS i

359
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:21.839
worked there for ten years and SO i had a

360
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:26.039
real professional maturation, happen and AS i rose up through the,

361
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.799
RANKS i became more confident and SO i would speak out.

362
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:34.319
More and at that, TIME cbs was not a culture

363
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:38.240
that valued independent, thought and SO i was like an

364
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.519
upstart teenager AND i was, LIKE i just had to

365
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:44.319
be slapped. Down and so it, was you, know very

366
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.559
much like you just never said anything that would be

367
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:55.799
construed as not one hundred percent supporting what my superiors were.

368
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.359
Thinking your point of, view so to.

369
00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:03.400
Speak, yeah, Yeah and that's that's always one that can

370
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:08.240
get a, person and probably both you AND I bothe

371
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:11.680
in trouble a lot of times because it's like if

372
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.480
you you, know one of those, things if you see,

373
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:16.880
something you want to say something or you want to

374
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.160
do something about, it and a lot of times it

375
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:23.680
depends on what it is and who it. Is, they you,

376
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:27.880
know the top don't want you a lot of times

377
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:32.079
to be visible like that saying something or doing something about.

378
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:35.240
It and that's another factor that comes into, play and

379
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.319
those are all the things that you know when you

380
00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.720
go through. That instead of doubting yourself the first thing

381
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:44.680
looking at well what DID i? Do you, know stop

382
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:49.359
and think, maybe, hey why did they do? This what

383
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:55.079
was the reasoning behind? There you, know thinking that they

384
00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:59.480
needed to fire, me because it doesn't necessarily have to

385
00:23:59.519 --> 00:23:59.720
be you.

386
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.160
Not if you know you're a person that is not

387
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:05.480
working at that, level then't own. That you, know go

388
00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:06.079
ahead and own.

389
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.839
It but if you, know like you, said you were

390
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:12.160
doing the, job you were, capable you were, confident then

391
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.279
don't let the first thought be what DID i? Do

392
00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:20.680
or AM i not you, know capable of doing this?

393
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.319
Job is that why they fired? Me started looking at

394
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.240
it from the point of view of, okay what is their,

395
00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:27.880
problem let's look at.

396
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.240
Yeah, yeah it's like really like looking at all the,

397
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:36.319
Data yeah, exactly because there may also be external factors as.

398
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:41.039
Well and So i'm thinking they pulled support on my

399
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.920
initiative That i've been working on for months and months and.

400
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.480
Months but Then i'm, like, okay you, know they're, jerks

401
00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:50.160
they don't get. It but THEN i have to widen

402
00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:52.480
the lens and, go oh wait a second there are,

403
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:57.240
tariffs there's a. War it's like there are other. Factors

404
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.119
it's never all us or all all. Them and SO

405
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:03.599
i feel like part of my belief system is the

406
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:08.240
path to success is just analytically, rationally just like looking

407
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:11.920
at what's the, data BECAUSE i want to know how

408
00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:14.440
DID i screw? Up BECAUSE i don't want to repeat that.

409
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.920
Mistake and SO i wasn't reading the. Room it's Like,

410
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:20.680
i'm you, know feeling, all you, know cocky and strong

411
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:23.759
and all, that AND i WAS i missed the signals.

412
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:27.440
Exactly AND i understand that. Completely and that's.

413
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.799
That is, so you, KNOW i think that's so true

414
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:33.920
for a lot of us when we enter into that

415
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.759
type of. Situation we have not read the room because

416
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.960
we think everything is going fine because we know we're doing.

417
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.920
What we're supposed to do the way we're supposed to do, it.

418
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:50.960
And so we don't see maybe the little thing or

419
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.680
the little sign that might be.

420
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:54.519
There we may overlook.

421
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.039
That but that's WHEN i say you have to stop

422
00:25:57.519 --> 00:25:59.759
and take a step back and, Say, okay NOW i

423
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:03.359
need to start reading this room and see what was actually.

424
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:09.640
Going on THAT i. Missed, yeah, yes, Yeah but why

425
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:10.599
do you think.

426
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:16.000
So many high performing people struggle to name what they're

427
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.720
feeling about us set back.

428
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:24.319
Because it doesn't align with one's identity as being. Successful

429
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.519
AND i think Doctor, meteline you AND i both, know

430
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:32.079
And i'm sure everyone watching and. Listening success does not

431
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:36.319
come without. Failure success doesn't come without, mistake success doesn't

432
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:40.920
come without face. Plants, however we live in a work

433
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:45.400
culture where there's a lot of talk and performance around,

434
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.000
oh fail, faster fail, quicker or fail. Better but the

435
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:54.039
truth is if we say publicly or own this is a,

436
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:58.240
failure then we get labeled as a, failure and so

437
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:02.880
our work cultures don't actually support AND i think it's

438
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:07.279
it's like one of the biggest flaws In western workplace

439
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.960
culture is not really having the proper ways to look

440
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.640
at and, analyze both like intellectually but also from an

441
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.839
emotional perspective what went. Wrong and SO i don't blame

442
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:23.400
leaders for SAYING i wasn't a, Failure oh it was

443
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:29.319
Doctor madeline's, faults because it's it's self. Protection but over

444
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:35.599
the long, term it actually it completely strangles. Innovation it

445
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:38.799
completely guts the trust that's needed for teams to be

446
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:43.160
able to. Build it impacts, efficiency. Productivity it's.

447
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.000
And you, know even WHEN i was going through WHAT

448
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:51.759
i went through with the, promotion it WAS i. KNEW

449
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:54.400
i mean BECAUSE i was with an organization that was

450
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:58.680
basically a male dominated. Organization So i'm in a WAY

451
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:03.400
i wasn't surprised that they chose the male you, know

452
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:08.440
because in their, eyes most of the positions that were being.

453
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:10.720
Held at an upper, level.

454
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.599
It seemed they felt were men were more capable of doing.

455
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.799
It if it was more on the technical. Side, now

456
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.240
if it was on The edmund, side oh, yeah we

457
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:24.880
didn't place you, know her in. It it's okay for

458
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.359
her to be in it, Then AND i think that

459
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.920
that had a lot to do with the organization, too

460
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:34.599
the mindset that men belong on one side of the,

461
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.799
house where the females belong on the other side of the.

462
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.599
House and so when you try to cross, over because

463
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:46.400
you know that you're capable of doing, both, really you,

464
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.880
know then that becomes where they have to look at

465
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:51.440
it and, say, oh, Well i'm going to go with

466
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:55.319
him BECAUSE i think he'll do it, better whereas a

467
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.079
lot of, times, no that's not necessarily the, case and

468
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:03.759
it wasn't the. Case and what happened with me because

469
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:07.920
the what the work, was so you, know but.

470
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:18.039
There's so the unconscious and conscious bias that, exists and

471
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:24.359
it's one one thing That i've learned to. Develop it's

472
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:31.799
not a magic, elixir but finding an affinity. Match, so for,

473
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:37.000
EXAMPLE i want to learn how to golf because a

474
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.960
lot of the people THAT i interact, with especially, men

475
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.319
love to play, golf and SO i like to try

476
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.839
to find something that allows me to have an, organic

477
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:51.279
natural connection to try to work against the unconscious or

478
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:55.039
conscious bias that, exists BECAUSE i want to start to

479
00:29:55.839 --> 00:30:00.640
create like a little path of oh Maybe laverne as

480
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:05.359
a mixed race woman is actually capable of something in

481
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:09.680
addition to admin and so will give me an opportunity

482
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:12.920
or a shot Because i've been able to create to

483
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.359
show that we have something in common that allows them

484
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.720
to potentially see me a little differently that can break

485
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:19.000
through that.

486
00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:22.160
Bias and that's what they tend to a lot of.

487
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.200
Times and this has been from way. Back you've heard

488
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:29.160
the fact that men tend to make a lot of

489
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:32.680
deals on the golf course because you, know that's where they,

490
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.880
are that's where they spend their. Time and if you're

491
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:39.160
not there to know what's going. On sometimes you get left,

492
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:42.480
behind you, know the, curve because you don't just because

493
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:46.160
you don't know how to play. Golf and it's it's

494
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:49.960
interesting that you brought that up because my first, book

495
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:55.480
WHEN i did my my doctor, DISSERTATION i and THEN

496
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:59.880
i turned it into a, BOOK i titled it playing

497
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:07.079
from The Blue Tea We, Want, so you, know it's

498
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:11.640
just interesting that you brought that. Up but, yeah you

499
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:14.240
do those. Things but and that's Why i'm a firm.

500
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:16.799
Believer when you're in an, organization that's why you have

501
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.720
to know as much as you can about that, organization

502
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.559
because you have to understand how it, thinks how the,

503
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.960
people especially the people up, top how they, think and

504
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:30.319
for the most, part you, know so that you can

505
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:36.640
really try to understand and not get thrown into these.

506
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.799
Loops now that's not going to always be the, case

507
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:43.440
that you, won't but if you learn as much as

508
00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:47.160
you can about the organization and do the little things

509
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.279
that you might need to do to stay visible so

510
00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:53.720
that you know when it's time for you to move

511
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.640
or to be promoted or someone to advocate for, you

512
00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:02.480
it's because they know that you you been in those.

513
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:06.200
Places you've done certain things to put yourself out there

514
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:10.200
to be, visible so they can, say, oh, yeah well

515
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.759
maybe you know, that, no we maybe let's just try

516
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.200
her for a little, while Because i've told my, clients

517
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:19.480
when you go for a position and they have that,

518
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.319
hesitancy you, know just tell, them, hey put me in

519
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.160
a position for thirty days and let me show you

520
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:27.720
WHAT i can. Do and then if you feel LIKE i,

521
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.519
Can't i'm not capable of doing, it OR i can't do,

522
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:33.519
it then we, can you, know come back and discuss,

523
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:37.319
that because sometimes it's a matter of just letting them, know,

524
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:39.880
HEY i CAN i can do it just as well

525
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:41.559
as anyone else can do, It.

526
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:47.680
Okay, yes, yes, Yeah and IT'S i feel like it

527
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:52.039
that having to prove oneself that that can. Like And

528
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.880
i'm also a big believer in hard truths THAT i

529
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:59.319
had a coach who early in my career who said

530
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:03.359
love the truth, first love yourself, second love others, third

531
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:06.200
and she's, like eighty percent of the truth. SUCKS i was,

532
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:08.640
LIKE i don't know IF i necessarily believe, that but

533
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:15.000
it's THAT i can complain about it OR i can

534
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:18.119
surrender to the truth and then figure, Out, okay how

535
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.559
DO i finagle my way to get WHAT i to

536
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.319
leave my purpose and honor my values exactly.

537
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.440
Exactly and that's that's the thing you want to stay

538
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.720
when you talk about honoring your, values and you know

539
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:34.640
you want to make sure that you stay true to

540
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:38.519
yourself and to your values and. Everything but you know,

541
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:42.279
you LIKE i, said you just make sure you understand the,

542
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:44.799
culture so to, speak and how everything.

543
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:46.960
Works AND i think.

544
00:33:46.839 --> 00:33:51.720
That's what will, help especially women a lot of times

545
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:56.079
they understand how the culture of an organization.

546
00:33:56.279 --> 00:34:04.480
Works, yeah women are. Extraordinary And i've witnessed this firsthand

547
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.760
in myself and other women that when we receive no

548
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:11.599
matter how horrible it, is but as long as we receive,

549
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:17.639
it we are incredible problem solvers and we create The.

550
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:21.760
Yeah and when we try to deny and negate put

551
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.719
our blinders, on then we get out of, alignment and

552
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:28.719
then we can no longer access our natural ability to

553
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:29.719
create something from.

554
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:37.599
Nothing so now you said that grief has, tests not.

555
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:43.039
Rules what are the risks when people try to follow rules?

556
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:48.480
Instead, yeah there are so many grief. Rules we talked.

557
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:51.480
About one of the primary ones that grief is only

558
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:57.880
related to loss of. Life there's also like, rules Doctor,

559
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:00.639
Madeline i'm so sorry for your Lost take the weekend

560
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:03.840
and we'll see you On. Monday and so there's this

561
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.960
unspoken rule that it's, like, oh as soon as you

562
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.599
have the memorial or the, funeral then you're, done and

563
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:14.599
grief doesn't work on it that particular. Timetable there's also

564
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:18.719
confusing rules around Doctor. Madeline why aren't you? Crying are

565
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.400
you not upset about the? Loss, oh Doctor, madlin you're

566
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.800
crying like reel it. In it's like you're just emoting too.

567
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:28.800
Much so it's very confusing of these. Rules and so

568
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.400
what happens is that rules tell you that you're right

569
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:35.920
or you're, wrong and there is no right or wrong

570
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:40.159
in terms of how we. Grieve we have preferences and

571
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:43.800
then we have these. Tasks and So i'm a quick

572
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:47.440
sidebar is that many people have heard Of Elizabeth Kobler

573
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:53.280
ross's five stages of grief and so, anger, bargaining, depression,

574
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:59.119
acceptance and forgetting one of, them but people believe they

575
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:04.880
have to work through those stages of. Grief Doctor Kluber

576
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:10.079
ross created this framework specifically from observing people who were

577
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.840
given a terminally ill, diagnosis and so she never meant

578
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:18.440
to say that a it's linear or that everybody experiences.

579
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:21.480
This so the tasks of, grief AND i reference this

580
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:24.599
briefly with THE rise, framework is that you recognize that

581
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:28.440
there's a, loss you investigate the, meaning and then the

582
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:32.679
third step is to create a ritual to have a good.

583
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:38.559
Goodbye most times with career, grief we don't have a good.

584
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:41.480
Goodbye we don't have a chance to say farewell to

585
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:43.760
the thing that we are attached. To but it doesn't

586
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.400
mean that you can't craft a good goodbye for. Yourself

587
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:51.119
so for, EXAMPLE i had a writer THAT i worked

588
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.079
with whose screenplayed it was just never, produced and it

589
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:57.360
was a passion project for. Her so she created a

590
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:01.559
ritual to say goodbye to that. Project she printed the script,

591
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:04.920
out and she dug a hole in her backyard and

592
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:09.000
she buried the, script and then she wrote a, eulogy

593
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:13.199
and she read the eulogy out, loud apologizing to the

594
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:15.239
script that she could not bring it into the world

595
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.760
in the way that she had, dreamed and then she

596
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:21.719
said rest in. Peace and it was that ritual that

597
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:23.079
really allowed her.

598
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:26.079
That might be the acceptance part of? It would that

599
00:37:26.199 --> 00:37:28.800
be her stage of, acceptance so to.

600
00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:30.039
SPEAK i GUESS.

601
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:33.000
I think it's part of, it and which is interesting

602
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:36.679
because acceptance can even come from recognizing the laws or

603
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:41.039
investigating the. Meaning and that's where the rules of grief

604
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:44.840
get people, convoluted because we flow, in we flow, out

605
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:48.440
we move, forward we move, back and then the final

606
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:53.719
task is embracing what's. Next and so that's returning to

607
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:58.320
what are my? Values what is my? Purpose because you

608
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.599
can't go through a grief event and not be changed

609
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:05.280
in some. Way so the purpose of mourning is to

610
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:10.440
integrate the loss into our, lives as opposed to blowing past.

611
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:15.960
It, yeah. Exactly so tell me how do you think?

612
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:22.159
GRIEF i should say career grief shows up in someone's,

613
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.079
decisions are their?

614
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:29.480
Behavior oh, Boy i'm going to reference myself on. This

615
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.719
the first decision THAT i made after being fired FROM

616
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.239
cbs was to say yes to the first job that

617
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:40.719
was offered to me BECAUSE i had no self. ESTEEM

618
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:44.960
i was. Panicked i'm the primary breadwinner for our family

619
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:48.519
and was, LIKE i just have to GET i gotta

620
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:53.360
pay the. Bills, Yeah and then it showed up WITH

621
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:58.639
i was constantly second guessing. MYSELF i was doing things

622
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:05.599
to prove, myself like overprove. MYSELF i lost my ability

623
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:09.760
to be assertive or aggressive in the. MARKETPLACE i. SHRANK

624
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:12.199
i JUST i just really really. Strank AND i see

625
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.159
that in so many other. People another way it shows.

626
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:18.559
Up i'm just thinking about this BECAUSE I i'm talking

627
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:23.519
with a client the other day that he kept. Minimizing he's,

628
00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:26.599
like he was, Saying, eh you, know it's not like brain.

629
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:29.639
Surgery my job wasn't that important. ANYWAY i wasn't saving.

630
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:34.360
Lives and SO i see that where people minimize because

631
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:37.320
they don't want to say that that was something that

632
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:38.639
was really important.

633
00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:45.480
Exactly, yeah, THIS i mean when you talk about, it you,

634
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:46.039
know like.

635
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:49.079
The career.

636
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.639
GRIEF i, MEAN i GUESS i just it was just

637
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:55.679
interesting WHEN i read you, know when you talked about

638
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:59.360
the grief part and it was career. GRIEF i, thought,

639
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:03.880
now this is interesting BECAUSE i don't think anyone ever

640
00:40:05.079 --> 00:40:09.199
put those two, together grief with your, career you, know

641
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:13.239
like you, said the disruption in any way in your

642
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:19.400
career as you grieving at any point because of, That, yes.

643
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:19.880
You might get.

644
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:24.320
Angry you, might you, know like you, said take the

645
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:26.760
first if you're, fired laid off or.

646
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:28.360
Whatever take the first thing that comes.

647
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:32.440
Along but you don't ever think to, Yourself i'm grieving

648
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:36.840
over the fact That i've lost What i've had for ten,

649
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.800
years twenty, years what have? You however long it's. Been

650
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:44.760
AND i had identified myself in this position THAT i

651
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.559
MAYBE i was going to retire from, this you, know.

652
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:53.079
Yes, yeah the, dream, yes, absolutely.

653
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:59.039
Yeah, wow, yeah that is so Interesting and it's just

654
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:03.159
so much that we and co go so.

655
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:05.599
Quickly so tell me if.

656
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:11.800
If you had one piece of advice that you would

657
00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:15.840
leave with our viewers and our listeners as it relates

658
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.559
to career, grief what would that piece of advice.

659
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:23.039
Be, well we touched on it, earlier and it's really

660
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:27.599
to say ouch to take the time to sort of

661
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:29.239
like you, know like check you like if you take a,

662
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:31.199
tumble you, know you fall off your bike or. Something

663
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:33.880
you take a minute and you, go, oh, okay is anything?

664
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:38.280
Broken AM i? Scraped and so is to say to, Yourself,

665
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:42.400
Oh i'm, sad and sadness is. Fleeting it can be.

666
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:46.440
Intense grief is like it needs to be tended. To

667
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:52.400
there's there's a there's a broken bone, there And i'm

668
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:54.639
gonna go a little bit further than the question ask.

669
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:59.800
Me but grief and mourning is a process of integrating

670
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:03.079
a loss into your life and into who you are. Becoming,

671
00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:07.079
because AS i said, earlier you don't experience grief without

672
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:10.000
being changed in some. Way so you can't get over,

673
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.320
grief you can't get past. Grief so IF i go

674
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.199
back to the broken bone, analogy and this comes from an,

675
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:18.840
Author Mary francis, O'Connor so, like IF i don't set

676
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:23.719
the bone in my broken, arm COULD i move?

677
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:23.880
It?

678
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:27.280
Probably COULD i? Function? Maybe would it be really? Painful?

679
00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:31.960
Yes IF i set the, BONE i can regain. MOTION

680
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.360
i can go about my daily life doing the things

681
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:36.920
THAT i love to. Do if YOU x ray that

682
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:40.239
bone ten years from, now fifty years from, now you

683
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:44.119
will always see that it was. Broken so it is

684
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.519
with career. Grief it will always be a part of,

685
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:51.599
you but you get to choose how it influences and

686
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:52.920
who it helps you. Become.

687
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:57.599
Next absolutely so tell, us Le, verne if any of

688
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:01.119
our viewers and listeners wanted to reach out to, you

689
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.440
maybe to work with you in some way to help

690
00:43:05.559 --> 00:43:09.159
help them through any career, grief how can they contact?

691
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:13.440
You i'd love to send people to my, website which

692
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:17.159
Is laverne McKinnon dot. Com and once you go, there

693
00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.639
you can sign up for my, newsletter and as part

694
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:24.840
of the, NEWSLETTER i have a career grief. Group and

695
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:27.280
So i'm not going to say too much more about

696
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:29.199
it because people can go to the website and check it,

697
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:31.239
out BUT i hope folks, do and there are a

698
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.719
lot of free resources and articles and things like that

699
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:36.679
that can help people in their grief. Journey.

700
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:38.760
Right thank you so.

701
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:42.360
Much it has been such a pleasure to be able

702
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.960
to chat with you about this. Topic LIKE i, said

703
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:48.280
it's so much MORE i know we could have covered

704
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.360
as it relates to, that because so many of us

705
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:53.719
go through especially women go through, it and we don't

706
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:58.000
even realize that we're grieving or what the process is

707
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:00.519
or even how sometimes to pull ourselves was out of.

708
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:02.960
It SO i do want to thank you for coming

709
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:07.679
and sharing your nuggets with, us and it has definitely

710
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:09.000
been a pleasure having.

711
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:09.159
Me on the.

712
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:10.920
Show thank you so.

713
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:16.119
Much all, Righty, well just to let everyone know what's

714
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:21.039
coming up, NEXT i am excited to share THAT i

715
00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:24.760
have been named to The women In Leadership top one

716
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:28.199
hundred lists for the twenty twenty six by The Global

717
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:35.599
Publishing Media. Group this list recognizes influential female leaders driving

718
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:41.239
change across global, industries AND i am just so honored

719
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:47.159
to be among. THEM i am also excited to let

720
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:50.239
you know THAT i will be a keynote speaker at

721
00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:54.360
the on IT X International conference which will be taking

722
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:58.920
Place may fourteenth through the seventeenth and at The well

723
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:03.760
at The Emotion resort In beautiful in The Beautiful Dominican.

724
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.559
Republic i'm looking forward to that they are having a

725
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:11.679
graduation ceremony AND i will also be speaking to the

726
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:16.519
graduates and also speaking to those that are looking to be.

727
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:21.119
Speakers So i'm excited about being able to be a

728
00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:25.199
part of that. Program i'm also excited that again to

729
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.639
let you know that The Successful women radio AND tv

730
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:32.559
show made the rank of Feed spots list of top

731
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:37.079
one hundred Best, career mindset And Working women, podcasts and

732
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:40.159
that we have gone from number sixteen on.

733
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:41.599
The list to number.

734
00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:46.239
Eleven, so IF i have to say so, MYSELF i

735
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:51.719
think that's a good. Thing this list highlights podcasts that

736
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:57.960
empower women to build successful, careers navigate workplace, challenges and

737
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.039
find true fulfillment in work and life and so this

738
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:06.039
is an honor to be recognized on that. List, also

739
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.719
if you have not viewed MY TEDx talk THAT i

740
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:12.519
did In, Vancouver, canada make sure to do. So the

741
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:15.719
topic was show up To Rise? Up or is show

742
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:18.480
up To Rise? Up you can watch it on YouTube

743
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.800
and just put my name in the search box Doctor

744
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:25.320
madeline And lewis and it should come right. Up if,

745
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:28.039
not you can email me for the direct link at

746
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:33.000
info AT exwsi dot. Com as you, Know i'm trying

747
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:36.400
to get to a million plus views right, now it's

748
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:39.840
at two hundred and forty six, thousand five hundred and eleven,

749
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:43.360
views SO i want to thank those of you in

750
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:47.679
advance for your, support those of you who have supported,

751
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:50.480
it and those of you who will support it in the.

752
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:55.599
Future continue to, share continue to like and comment on the.

753
00:46:55.719 --> 00:47:00.760
Video i'm also a contributing writer for On it, magazine

754
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:04.599
WHERE i contribute a article every.

755
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.039
Month Own It magazine is.

756
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:12.920
A magazine that is for a resource for personal and

757
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:19.039
professional development and personal professional and business. Development so if

758
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.039
you'd like to get a free, subscription you can email

759
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:27.400
me again at info AT exwsi dot. COM i want

760
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.400
to thank you again for watching.

761
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:32.639
Us on The Successful Women's.

762
00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:36.519
Show i'd like to thank my, Guests Miss laverne McKinnon

763
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:40.480
for sharing such great nuggets with us. Today i'm Doctor

764
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:42.960
Madelin Anne, lewis and if you'd like to reach out to,

765
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:48.400
me you can always email me at info AT exwsi dot.

766
00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:53.280
Com i'm also on all of the social media, platforms

767
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.880
so you can also reach out to me that. Way

768
00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:01.719
don't forget to subscribe to our channel also to like

769
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:06.760
and share this episode with. Others, again this is The

770
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:11.239
Successful Women's. Show we are here every. WEEK i am your,

771
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.760
host Doctor madeline And lewis helping women to accelerate the

772
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:20.159
path to. Success thank you again for joining. US i

773
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:24.679
love you all to life and as, always be well

774
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:26.679
and stay safe out.

775
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:32.320
There this is, Success successful.

776
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:57.360
Sun, Set Successful.

777
00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:00.119
Women m